Looking at getting a real amp, version 2

obobskivich

solid state amps use solid state circuits to achieve amplification, like d76 was saying, a mosfet is a mosfet

tube (or valve) amps use vacuum tubes to achieve amplification (basically different ways of getting gain on the signal)

valve amps are said to have a warmer sound, with smoother, or as some people would say, more liquid midrange, which (at least mathematically) is higher distortion from the "true" waveform, nonetheless, valve amps are still considered the avant garde by many, at least as the last word in quality

SS or solidstate amps (a lot more common in modern times, due to the lower cost of solidstate logic) can provide a lot more power and really good measurements on paper, but some people describe their sound as too cold or dark (it really depends on the listener and what you've experienced, personally I love my solid state and its good SQ, be it a headphone amp, or speaker amp, although I can appreciate the sound of a good valve amplifier or valve preamplifier (I'd agree that its "warmer" sounding))

this might help you sort through what I just said:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/des...ossary-220770/

thats really exhaustive, and not everyone will follow it as described, but it should give you an idea or a starting point

and here's some wiki for your boredom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_amplifier

ultimately its all personale preference, like I said, I like both generally, and respect both for their differences, arguing which is better is like arguing LCD vs CRT (which is actually, surprisingly, almost the same arguement)

CRTs have a lot of advantages over LCD, and vice versa
nobody really wins the arguement, its all down to what you prefer, and then theres people that dont mind either, as long as the quality is there

wafflesomd

Wow, this forum is perfect for you obob! Way better than head-fi.

You can say whatever you want, and nobody asks for proof! That's amazing!

DarkLink2135

Waffle.

SHUT THE **** UP.

----

On topic, I have now all but officially bought a Marantz 2270 for $50. My ex-roommate called today and said $50 sounded good. Since I got to put repairs into it after wards, I'm not sure I could afford too much more than that =/.

department76

to follow up on unlikely1's post about the marantz 2270 (i was curious so i found all this out by searching and reading, lol i know google does wonders):

the 2270 was the model that came right after they stopped using vacuum tubes in their amps. the reason it is acclaimed to have a warm tube-like sounds is becuase marantz used all the same poly capacitors and other top-audio-grade components that they used in the vacuum models. so supposedly the awesome SQ the 2270 creates is due to top quality capacitors, which is also part of where the similar sound to tube amps comes in beacuse of the use of the same components with just MOS-FETs (i assume) instead of the tubes.

the marantz is a great find and should sound wonderful. the eccentric audio purist in me is suggesting that if your aim is to blast music at high levels (nothing wrong with that ) then you might consider a modern amp/receiver with possibly a bit more power and pass on that marantz to someone who would appreciate all of it's glory. after doing that you could probably make money on the marantz for something better, making everyone happy.
however, it definately fits the bill of your approach; quality and improvement over your previous equipment at low cost. so, it's up to you. just a thought.

here's an idea of what you might look at should you chose to sell the marantz, since you were serious about the 2 channel marantz then why look to waste money on a surround receiver. i like the ones below because they offer high quality amplification without wasted frills, at a good price.

Sherwood RX-4105
100W rms x2 ch. @ .08% THD, 20-20KHz

TEAC AG-790A
100W rms x2 ch. @ .9% THD, 20-20KHz, including phono input

UNLIKELY1

Thats a great deal Dark. I think you are going to be very happy with it. If you have a Guitar Center near you, they have the Caig De-Oxit there. Its the best stuff for cleaning the pots and switch's. FurBall is rite, the RatShack stuff is Crap, but in a pinch it will work. I would recomend getting some Faderlube for the switches as well. Put it on after you clean them with the deoxit and let the deoxit dry/evaporate. You are going to have to do some disassembly to the Marantz to get to the back side of the front panel where the Pots (potentiometers, they are the round turning style of controls).
If you need any help PM me and I can walk you threw it. Or go to Audiokarma and do a search in there forum for "Marantz 2270". Lots of links to cleaning and servicing the 2270. Enjoy!!

wafflesomd

You guys are pretty slow with the whole banning process.

Just as a last reminder, go to audioholics or hydrogenaudio. Those people actually know what they are talking about.

I still can't believe anyone here listens to obob. He shouldn't be allowed to post.

obobskivich

guitar center...sells...dexoit

i wasted
$7

on shipping...


god
oh well, thank you for that little bit of information there unlikely, hahahaha

i like that teac to be honest, but i'm not sure how I feel about the sherwood (i'm not against it, I'm just kind of indifferent to the brand as a whole)
theres also the Pioneer A-35R, and Yamaha RX-497 and 797, which should also be decently low priced

and Rotel's 2x70W is $399 if you can find it, but its a raw amp (if you got a headamp/etc that you can use as a pre, it'd be good to go)

just a ton of other options, if you were interested

but at $50, that marantz should be great (i keep hearing the announcer from UT2004 "flawless victory" lol)

this is why I love used stuff

UNLIKELY1

HA HA thats great.
Yeah I love vintage electronics. There is just something about a 70lb receiver (my Pioneer SX-1250) rapped in wood and bouncing signal needles that cannot be ignored. Pushing 160 watts (concervative) into 8 0hms and 200 watts into 4.
I want to put an "11" on the volume knob!!
I also have Pioneer sx-1010, SX-939, sx-737. As well as a troubled Fisher 700t, wich is VERY rare. I also have an old Sansui reverb box, just for fun. It does make some of my vinyl live recordings sound better, but other then that, you have to be a big fan of distortion to actualy use it alot.
My next big receiver purchase is going to be a Pioneer SX-1980. An absolute beast, under rated at 270 WPC!!!

Sorry for the OT talk Dark, but I just love this S***!!!

department76

hhahahhahah. i think waffle's and xmax's behringers turn up to 11

to obob:
i think he could get away without a preamp and just use a raw amp fine, using the soundcards abilities as the preamp.

to bobby:
yes the bouncing needles and vintage look are cool, and someday there will be room for a setup like that in my (future) house (when i'm wealthy and accomplished like you ).

call it newage snobbery if you like, but nothing beats the elegant looks of todays top-end

UNLIKELY1

OH S#!&!! It figures! I wasnt sure if anybody would catch my ST ref.

OOOOO thats is sooo sexy!!
(Wipes drool from chin)

I have an appreciation for both, hence the Emotiva. Form and function. The 1250 will drive the Z's, but it is paired up with some vintage speakers, as it should be.

obobskivich

honestly, while that marantz is gorgeous, I prefer McIntosh at that price level, nothing really, compares

and yeah, sorry for the OT @ darklink, lol, you got audio geeks talking about super hi-fi...

Uncle Dirt

Time to get out those old Queen records for some real analog pleasure.

DarkLink2135

I've got a few Queen records in my possession :).

To defend myself, I don't want to just blast music. To be fair, yeah, sometimes I like to, but most times i Like to just sit back, relax, and listen to some good music. In a few years I'm pretty sure I'm not even going to like loud, and I'll enjoy the Marantz all that much more.

EDIT: I don't care about OT at all. It's the flaming that pisses me off, especially for the second time around.

obobskivich

oh, that marantz will BLAST, its somewhere between 50 and 70wpc, as long as you have decently efficient speakers, that's get LOUD

I've got a pair of Technics that are decetnly efficient (not Klipsch-esque, I know how you feel about those D76 (I still love dem horns)), the 50wpc SS amp they came with is enough to just decimate that HT room I was talking about, and with my ~100wpc yamaha, well, lets save I've never gone over half and my ears still hate me for it lol

and with both of these amplifiers, the quality is there as well as the power supply, so its not like I've got massive distortion or anything (Granted that Technics will clip a lot sooner than the Yamaha, but its easy enough to avoid pushing it to clipping)

and queen + vinyl = ftw, if only I had such vinyl (i've got a decent-ish vinyl collection, still kinda small though, lol)

department76

wow didn't know there were so many queen fans right here. but then again, it's impossible not to like their stuff

news of the world was my favorite record growing up and is easily the reason i like queen, parents had an old cheap GPX stereo receiver with a built in turntable. that's where my audio interest began.

obobskivich

lol, I haven't seen a reciever/turntable unit in a while, lol

Queen is awesome, although I gotta say, Rush probably got me into rock/classic rock more than Queen

UNLIKELY1

I have a hard time thinking of rush as classic rock but it is ( by the way Obob, I have seen Rush 3 times!!).
I am showing my age again but my dad listening to bands like The Beatles, Doors, Zeppelin, Santana that got me into rock. I was exposed to alot of jazz as well.
As far as vinyl, PF " The Wall" is one of the best recordings ever, IMHO.
I will be picking that up on SACD
Does anybody have any experience with DVD- Audio??

obobskivich

everything i've heard basically says that it isn't worth the extra cash to "upgrade" from SACD, unless your SACD transport/player is already media compatable (but, say you've got a good SACD transport, you won't notice enough quality (and in some cases its lower quality) to upgrade to DVD-A)

and yeah, I can imagine thinking about rush as classic, as weird, if I was from the 1960's/1970's, lol

I'm weirded out that stuff like Robin S. is considered vintage, and thats only 15-16 years old (lol "only")

department76

i have about ten SACDs and about six or seven dvds at 48k including three DVD-A. most audio on DVD is kind of a sham unless you know what you're buying. i.e. a lot of concerts on dvd just have compressed dolby digital at 192kbps 48kHz, which is actually significantly lower quality than even regular cds. with this in mind, the stereo tracks on DVD-A usually have better quality and less compression than the 5.1 stuff does. you need to look for bonified DVD-Audio disks and avoid stuff with video, i've bought stuff from 5point1.com.
edit- to ellaborate a bit more and be more specific, it is my understanding that dvd tracks that don't have video and only a still frame or no display at all only containing audio will be 'dvd-a.' if it has video, then it will be limited to the typical dvd quality of 384kbps DD or 1.5mbps DTS at 48kHz.

i think the safest route (and my favorite) is the DTS audio dvd route. they are good priced and can come in great audio quality. the regular 48kHz and 24 or 16 bit stuff is pretty decent because it comes less compressed, but the DTS 96/24 discs hit the highest level DVD can support. afik, all DVD-A is compressed to some extent, only the newest DTS-HD and Dolby trueHD is lossless. nontheless, DTS audio by my experience sounds pretty damn good.

i think SACDs might be better overall than DVD-A, considering it is 2.8Mbps it is going to always be better than anything coming from a dvd via dolby digital but 96/24 can technically reach higher than SACD. the problem is with SACDs you can only pass via analog connections (thank Sony and their proprietary crap for that) so you probably want to invest in some quality cables.

edit- since we were talking about queen i thought i'd mention i have The Game on 96/24 DTS
also, a good way to check the bitrate of your media is if you have dvd software like windvd or w/e, then check into the info tab or wherever and look at the audio rate. creatives dvd-a player might have that too but i'm not sure.

obobskivich