Buyers Guide for RAM

Joe_B_Me

.:Version 3.3 of Joe_B_Me's Ram Guide:.
*thanks blazin, its a sticky now

Dont know what to buy?
Don't know what to expect?
Confused about ram timings?
A complete noob to ram in general? (i was there once)


Quicky Buying Guide

Non-Overclocking Ram
512x2 Corsair Value PC3200 2.5-3-3-7 2T ($65-$75) (215-225 FSB max)
512x2 G-Skill ZX PC3200 2-3-3-6 1T ($85-90) (220-235 FSB max)
1024x2 Rosewill PC3200 2.5-3-3-7 2T ($135-$145) (215-220 FSB max)

Overclocking Ram
512x2 OCZ Platinum Rev. 2 PC3200 2-2-2-5 1T ($140-$165) TCCD (290-310 FSB max)
1024x2 G-Skill PC4000 3-4-4-8 1T $165-$200) UCCC (270-295 FSB max)

~Index~

Part I - Intro/ Links of Doom
Part II - Goal in Overclocking Ram
Part III - Basic Guide on how to Overclock it
Part IV - ARG Whats Wrong!
Part V - The Ram List (Budget, Good OC, Insane OC, 1GB & 2GB)
Part VI - Ram to Avoid When OC'in
Part VII - Test Systems for the Ram List
Part VIII - Guide Lines for Suggesting Ram of the List
Part IX - Temperature Guide
Part X - Dividers, What They do, How to do it
Part XI - Do Timings Matter?
Part XII - Ram Speeds and You
Part XIII - AMD64 s939 WARNING!
Part XIV - OCZ VX Value Review (OMG!)
Part XV - Corsair Value PC3200 Review
Part XVI - TCCD in a Nutshell
Part XVII - Cheap Ram Cooling That Works!
Part XVIII - Laptop Memory Buyers Guide
Part XIX - List of Updates

MY REVIEWS!
PQI TCCD 512MBx2 PC3200
G-Skill 1024MBx2 PC4000
OCZ "VX" Value 512x2 PC3200
Corsair Value 512x2 PC3200

Part I - Intro/ Links of Doom

To start out this guide, heres a bunch of links for help you in your conquest to fully understand ram in its entirety.

Too last to read, try Corsairs ram guide (its bias, dug)
CAS Latency Bulletin
Corsair Memory Basics Presentation
(especially slide 22 on second link)

Part II - Goal in Overclocking Ram

Highest FSB while still keeping "tight" timings. (tight timings are vital to AMD systems, and not so much for intel based systems.)

If you want to know the importance to Ram Timings, and learn more about them, heres a guy from EOCF, and his guide. (will explain each ram part, its role, and what you can do with it)
LINK

Heres another guide from EOCF (talks about ram in general) LINK

If you are wondering about what the ram has inside of it (TCCD, etc...)
click this link New RAM List!!! - XtremeSystems Forums

Part III - Basic Guide on how to Overclock it

Overclocking your CPU will also overclock your memory.

I'll assume most of you have a system with a FSB of 200. To calculate your CPU speed, your multiply your FSB by the multiplier.

FSB x Multi = CPU Speed
200 x 11 = 2200MHz (i'm using my current rig (AMD64 3200+ 2.2GHz, 1024MB PQI Turbo 2-2-2-5) for examples)

To change your FSB, go into your BIOS during startup, You'll probably have to hit an F-Key or Del to get in. Once your in, find the FSB section of the BIOS. Raise it by 5. So I'd be @ 205 x 11 = 2255MHz. Lets say i can boot up windows just fine, i run a few benchmarks, everythign is fine. So, I'll restart my PC, and go back into my BIOS. Now, I'll raise it by 4, 209 x 11 = 2299MHz. Lets say when I'm booting up windows, it locks up, or randomly restarts, this could mean 1 of several things.
1. your ram timings are too tight
2. you are not putting enough volts in your memory
3. you are not putting enough volts in your cpu
4. your PSU sucks, the rails dropped, and the PC restarted

I'd suggest loosening the ram timings first. For Me, I'd change it to 2-3-3-6 vs 2-2-2-5.

Lets say it runs stable after I change it to 2-3-3-6, so I'll push my CPU a little further, lets say 214 x 11 = 2354 and it runs fine. I'll just keep raising my FSB by 4-5 until one of several factors makes it unstable, such as...
1. CPU temps are way to high (i suggest 40C or lower when Idle, 55C or less when @ full load)
2. memory timings cannot be relaxed any further
3. the cpu chip just isnt stable at those speeds
4. my psu cannot remain stable from the extra strain (if its not Aspire, dont worry, lol)
5. IF you dont have PCI/AGP lock, be careful, some of those cards in there may give funky performance. Like when I put my FSB @ 242 with not PCI/AGP lock, my R9800P > XT gave weird artifacts, even when I lowered my clocks to the Pro clocks. This was also the same case for my FX5600XT.

My Overclocking Achievements
-AMD64 3700+ 939 (200x11=2200 stock, @ 265x11=2915 1.56v)
-AMD64 3000+ 939 (200x9=1800 stock, @ 257x9=2313 1.54v)
-AMD64 3200+ 939 (200x11=2200 stock, @ 270x10=2700 1.52v)
-AMD64 3500+ 939 (200x11=2200 stock, @ 270x10=2700)
-AMD64 3200+ 754 (200x11=2200 stock, @ 242x11=2662)
-AMD64 3000+ 754 (200x10=2000 stock, @ 241x11=2410)
-P4E 3.0 478 (15x200=3000 stock, @ 252x15=3780)

Part IV - ARG Whats Wrong!

Many things could go wrong when you overclock your cpu, change volts, mess with ram timings, or mess with cooling.

Lets say...

You get the BSOD (blue screen of death). Many things could cause this, like a wierd video card, really bad ram timings, or lack of voltage in the memory. If you get the BSOD, try the following, put your video card back to stock, see what happens. If no progress, loosen your ram timings. If that doesn't work, add a little bit of volts to your ram, if that fails, drop the voltage. IF that doesn't work, put everything in your PC back to stock. IF still the problem sucks, clear your CMOS or load your fail safe settings. That should take care of the problem.

You get a BBSOD (blank blue screen of death). This is a bad sign, your CPU may be dying. put everything at stock. Clear your CMOS or load your fail safe settings. Sometimes its just your BIOS, for me loadign the fail safe settings fixed the problem.

Your computer locks up, nothing responds. Loosen your ram timings. If that fails, add some volts to your ram. If that fails, loosen the timings until the problem stops.

Your computer gets funky error messages when you try to run benchmarks, games, etc... Your CPU is not getting enough volts. Super PI is great at finding that out. If it can't riun any of its tests, then add some volts to your CPU, problem solved.

Your computer randomly restarts. This can be caused by low CPU volts, too many volts in the ram, or the ram is too tight.

Your computer makes a funky scratchy sound, shows funky colors, then restarts.This means you either have too many volts in your cpu, its overheating like crazy. Back off your OC, its too high.

Can't get overclocks as good as some other people can. Note, certain mobo's have crappy chipsets, that hate ram. Like my Abit Kv8 Max3. I have to loosen the timings to 3-4-4-8 2T to get to 240FSB, where when I had my MSI neo2, i could hit 270FSB @ 2.5-3-3-7 1T.

Part V - The Ram List (Budget, Good OC, Insane OC)

GOOD OVERCLOCKING RAM (all are @ 1T)
OCZ EL Platinum Revision 2 PC3200 FSB ~270 2.5-3-3-7 (1GB)
OCZ EL PC3200 Gold VX FSB 265 2-2-2-10 @ 3.4Vdimm (1GB)
Patriot PC3200 W/ XBL FSB ~270+ 2.5-3-3-7 (1GB)
PQI Turbo PC3200 (same as patriot) ~270+ 2.5-3-3-7 (1GB)
Mushkin LII/V2 PC3200 FSB ~257 2.5-3-3-7 2.7v (1GB)

INSANO OVERCLOCKING RAM (all are @ 1T)
GSkill PC4400 LE FSB ~280+ 2.5-3-3-7 2.75v (1GB)
OCZ PC4400 EL Gold FSB ~280 2.5-3-3-7 2.85v (1GB)
ShikaTronics XRam PC4400 DC Kit FSB ~290 3-4-4-8 2.85v (1GB)
Corsair XMS4400 Twinx FSB ~280 2.5-4-4-8 (1GB))

INSANO OVERCLOCKING RESULTS FROM OTHER PEOPLE
GSkill PC4400 LE FSB ~ 301 2.5-3-3-7 1T 3.0V
OCZ VX PC3200 FSB ~ 270 2-2-2-6 1T 3.6V
OCZ PC3200 Plat. Rev.2 ~ 318 2.5-4-3-7 1T 3.#V

BUDGET RAM FOR BUDGETED COMPUTERS (not so much with overclocking)
Its not uncommon to see 1GB of value ram for under $80 now. Corsair value is the most dependable of all the value ram, at least, i think so. Timings @ 2.5-3-3-7 1T 2.6V, not bad for a gig.

2GB Kit Section

Best Bargain is G-Skill Extreme Series PC4000
$200, $170 on sale, 1GBx2. 3-4-4-8 1T @ DDR500, 2.80v

Part VI - Ram to Avoid When OC'in

RAM TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS WHEN YOU WANT TO OVERCLOCK
El Cheapo Generic Ram from companies you've never heard of!
Any value ram will not OC worth a damn, except for the few lucky OCZ "VX" value ram buyers who can get it up to a FSB of 270 2-2-2-6 1T 3.2V, other than that, if you want to OC, dont buy generic value ram!
Part VII - Test Systems for the Ram List

With the help of friends, we got to test all of these kits on 2 seperate rigs, and made an average of the results.


AMD64 Rig (939) (no, this wasnt my rig)
AMD64 3500+ WC, (multi @ 10 for higher FSB)
MSI Neo Plat. 2
TR XP90 with med. output 92mm fan
6800NU (all 16 pipes enabled)
Some thermaltake 480W PSU

P4 Rig (478) (my former rig, now my friends)
P4 Pres. 3.0GHz
Abit IC7 Max3
TT Pipe 101 w/ 80mm fan, med. output
MSI RX9800 Pro @ 515/410 (extremo modded fridge/aircompressor mod)
some 650W PSU with 22A on the +12V rails, could be better

Part VIII - Guide Lines for Suggesting Ram of the List

Please, find some reviews on other kick ass overclocking, if it follows my guidelines (look below), then I’ll add it to the 3rd ram list section thingy.

Guidelines
1. -Must hit a FSB of at least 250 with timings of 2.5-3-3-7 1T
2. -Must be 100% chance, none of this it has a 50% chance of being the ram brand -that its not (cheapo OCZ ram performing like VX is a good example)
3. -If it needs to go to 2T for a FSB of 270 or higher, consider that ram not in the insano overclockng section
4. -Give me links, so I can see the results myself, I take your words as 100% Bull Sh*t without a link

Part IX - Temperature Guide

These are ideal tems for your...
CPU Idle (not in BIOS) - less than 40C
CPU Full Load - less than 55C
CPU Limit (where it should die, lol) - +70C
PSU Full Load - less than 65C
Video Card Full Load - less than 80C
Memory - dont worry, they wont get very hot, mostly just warm

You'll only need to add a fan to cool your ram if you have a FSB of like 270+, and +3.0V. The OCZ VX memory requires a fan, because it can handle 3.6V's.

Part X - Dividers, What They do, How to do it

If your ram is not holding you back from your highest/best OC, dont even bother to think about using a divider. Most PC's @ stock use a 1:1 divider (cpu:ram ratio). 1:1 means that the cpu fsb and the ram are running at the same speed. Dividers are usefull if your cpu has a lot of headroom for overclocking, but your ram sucks, or performs really bad with that chipset.

Changing your divider very easy. Go into your bios, find your ram settings. see the section (most likely near the top) where it say Ram Frequency (or something along those lines?). It should say 200. Move your cursor over that, press enter (or w/e the select key is in your bios) and looks at your various options. My mobo (Abit Kv8 Max 3) gives me these options...

DDR400
DDR333
DDR266

(other mobos will normally give you numbers...like 250, 233, 200, 166, 133, 100, etc...)

I already know that im running @ DDR400, so i pump it down to DDR333.

I boot up into windows, and open up cpu-z, my cpu (3200+ newcastle, 2.2 stock) is running @ 200x11 (stock). I check my ram, and its running @ 167MHz (DDR333) (11:14 divider). With this done, i can now raise my FSB while keeping my tight timings. (I have PQI Turbo at the moment, 2-2-2-5 1T @ DDR400. its currently unstable @ stock b/c my chipset hates the samsung tccd, so using the divider is a great way to get my cpu MHz up)

[IMG]will have an image of divider soon[/IMG]

Everything is looking good so far, so I reboot, and go back into the BIOS. I start raising my CPU FSB up. After a few reboots, I get up to 227 FSB on the cpu, and my rams @ 181. Note, i'm running 2-2-2-5 1T stable, so I'm happy.

With my cpu @ ~2500MHz, i decide to run some benchmarks

(+ or - 50pts on all the benchmark scores below)

Stock Everything (2200MHz, 2-2-2-5 1T 1:1:)
3DMark01SE - 20500
3DMark03 - 6700
PCMark05 - 3300

CPU @ ~2500MHz, 2-2-2-5 with 11:14 divider
3DMark01SE - 21100
3DMark03 - 6770
PCMark05 - 2400 < not a typo

CPU @ ~2500MHz, 2.5-3-3-7 2T 1:1
3DMark01SE - 22100
3DMark03 - 6900
PCMark05 - 3450

I was shocked @ the pcmark05 score with the divider. I wasn't expecting it to that bad. But in 3d-benchmarks, it wasn't too horrible. If you have value ram, and want to get a higher CPU OC, a divider is for you. I personally havent noticed any performance drop in windows, while playing music and using adobe photoshop, while using the divider, same case for games. Using dividers is an easy way to overcome value ram, and get some extra MHz outta your pc.

Part XI - Do Timings Matter?
Yes they do. Some people think that tight timings @ stock will give little performance increase compared to loose timings @ stock. Well guess what, it does make a difference. Example.

Testing Rig
Mobo - MSI Neo Plat 4 (939)
CPU - 3200+ Venice (200x10 stock, 1.35V-1.4V stock)
Value Ram - OCZ Value PC3200 1GB (512x2) 2-3-3-6 2T 2.6V
OC'in Ram - PQI Turbo PC3200 1GB (512x2) 2-2-2-5 1T 2.6V
PSU - OCZ 450W Modstream
VC - ATI X850Pro 256MB PCI-E (507/520 stock, 612/600 OC'd)

First Test - Sanda Memory Bandwidth test
OCZ Value - 4879MB/s
PQI Turbo - 5731MB/s

Second Test - Aquamark 3 (VC at stock)
OCZ Value - 61,067
PQI Turbo - 64,313

Third Test - Max OC
OCZ Value - 231MHz (DDR462) 3-4-4-8 2T (@ 2.75V)
PQI Turbo - 273MHz (DDR536) 2.5-3-3-7 1T (@ 2.70V)

Fourth Test - Aquamark with Max OC on CPU & VC
OCZ Value - 67,750 (@ 2.75V)
PQI Turbo - 83,814 (@ 2.70V)

Proof of 83,814 score

CPU voltage made anything above 274MHz unstable, I could not add any more, otherwise, the cpu would be around 3.0GHz, no problem.

Timings Difference in Ram (2-2-2-5 1T ~vs~ 3-4-4-12 2T)
Mobo - MSI Neo Plat 4 (939)
CPU - 3200+ Venice (200x10 stock, 1.35V-1.4V stock)
Ram - PQI Turbo 2-2-2-5 1T & 3-4-4-8 2T
PSU - OCZ 450W Modstream
VC - ATI X850Pro 256MB PCI-E @ stock (507/520)

First Test - Sanda Memory Bandwidth test
3-4-4-12 2T - 4279MB/s
2-2-2-5 1T - 5731MB/s

Second Test - Aquamark 3 (VC at stock)
3-4-4-12 2T - 60,147
2-2-2-5 1T - 64,313
Now you know

Part XII - Ram Speeds and You
-Most of todays CPU's run off of a 200MHz FSB. DDR will double that rate to 400MHz. This standard is known as PC3200.

To help you figure out what speed equals what FSB, I've made the following equation.
Conversion for PC#### to FSB.

PC#### / 16 = CPU FSB
examples

PC3200 / 16 = 200
PC3500 / 16 = 218.75
PC4800 / 16 = 300
and so on

*the following part will explain why I divide by 16, if you are easily confused, skip this section.

I figured 16 is the right number looking at it this way.

PC3200 = DDR400 speeds = 200 CPU FSB
3200/200 = 16
The logic may be off, but the equation works none-the-less.

Now, you may ask yourself, If I put PC4800 in my system, will it run faster? Guess what. No. Your ram will only run as fast as your cpu.

Lets say you own a Processor X, which is 2.8GHz (200x14). Your CPU FSB is 200. And you have PC3200 ram in there. The CPU will allow your ram to pump out 3200MB/s (6400MB/s dual channel) in a perfect world.
Now you upgrade your ram to PC4800. Your CPU FSB still remains 200, which in short, will allow your ram to pump out 3200MB/s (6.4k dual channel). See a problem? I do. You bought faster ram, but...
your cpu fsb is the limiting factor. Faster ram wont do jack if your cpu wont live up to the challenge.

Now, I know someone will ask, Im I run my ram faster than my cpu, will I get more performance? I personally cannot answer that one. I've tried running ram faster than my cpu (With a divider) and ran a bios issue, where my bios would not allow my ram to do that, and used some oddball divider. I have googled this topic and found no evidence of it helping or hurting. So I have no opinion on this matter.

Can you mix different ram chips? Yes...but...your ram will run only as fast as your slowest chip. It is not possible to individually overclock and increase voltage to the slower chip so it can perform as well as the faster chip. There is one way to solve your issue. replace the slow stick, or but new ram altogether.

Part XIII - AMD64 s939 WARNING!
I have just learned that s939's cannot run dual channel ram @ 1T when using 4x###MB/s. So...if you want to keep your 1T timings with 2GB's of ram, 2x1GB is your only option. Either that, or stick to 512x2.

Part XIV - OCZ VX Value Review

http://www.xoxideforums.com/showpost...20&postcount=1
Cas of 1.5, wow

Part XV - Corsair Value Review

http://www.xoxideforums.com/showpost...08&postcount=1
Can it compete with the big boys?

Part XVI - TCCD in a Nutshell

The Samsung TCCD is one of the best ram options if you love tight timings when @ stock, and love super higher FSB. TCCD appears to suck on Intel rigs, and thrive on the N-Force chipsets (most of the AMD mobo's out there)

TCCD chips are guaranteed (binded) to do the following.
2-2-2-5 1T @ 200
2.5-3-3-7 1T @ 250
2.5-4-4-10 1T @ 300

From personal experice (4 sets of TCCD), this is what TCCD will actaully do.
2-2-2-5 1T @ 200 w/ 2.60v
2-2-2-8 1T @ 232 w/ 2.75v
2.5-3-3-6 1T @ 260 2.70v
2.5-3-3-7 1T @ 276 2.75v
2.5-4-3-8 1T @ 290 2.80v
2.5-4-4-8 1T @ 300 2.85v
2.5-4-4-10 1T @ 310 2.85v (memory was getting warm, so I rubberbanded a 60mm fan to the ram to cool it)

Thats the basics of TCCD. 1GB (512x2) of TCCD costs around the $175-$185 range.

Part XVII - Cheap Ram Cooling That Works!
Does your ram ever get too hot? Do you think that you might be able to squeeze out those few extra MHz if you had some kind of cooling? Well ponder no more, because I'll show you a cheap way to cool your ram.

Things You'll Need
(2) rubber bands
(1) fan (i'd suggest a 40 ot 60mm fans, 80mm's and up are kinda big)

What to Do (With your pc off, duh)
1. Get your supplies
2. Take a rubberband, and put it around the fan
3. Place the fan in about the middle of your ram (middle length wise)
4. Stretch one end of the rubberband over to the notches that keep the ram in your mobo
5. While holding that fan there, get your 2nd rubber band and put it around the fan
6. Stretch that rubberband over to the opposite side
7. Gently remove your hand from holding the fan, if it flys off, you did something wrong, try again. It took me 3 trys before it stayed.

When your done, it should look something like this.




Part XVIII - Laptop Memory Buyers Guide
1) does your laptop has 2 dimms. yes-2), no-3)
2) what speed? PC2100, 2700, 3200? (go to 4)
3) what speed? PC2100, 2700, 3200? (go to 5)
4) does your lappy support dual channel yes-6) no -7)
5) find ram with the same timings
6) find ram with the same timings, and preferably same brand

Buy Notebook Memory, Laptop Memory, Laptop RAM, Laptop Memory Upgrade at Newegg.com

lucky you, you get the super fun ram chart!!!!! woot!

Part XIX - List of Updates

Updates to this Guide
v.3.3-added ram speed section, reorganized the guide
v.3.2-added the TCCD section
v.3.1-added the lappy guide
v.3.0-added Cheap Ram Cooling That Works! section
v.2.9-extended section IV
v.2.8-added the Dividers, What They do, How to do it section
v.2.7-added the corsair value review
v.2.6-added the OCZ VX Value Review (just the link)
v.2.5-added the AMD64 s939 WARNING! section
v.2.4-fixed a few erros here and there
v.2.3-added Do Timings Matter? section
v.2.2-expaned the temp section
v.2.1-fixed some dumb mistakes
v.2.0-added the Temperature Guide section
v.1.9-added the ARG Whats Wrong! section
v.1.8-added overclocking section
v.1.7-added more memory
v.1.6-added a crap load of links for your viewing pleasure
v.1.5-added the cheapo budget ram section
v.1.4-updated the format again, further cleaned up pointless text
v.1.3-updated format to make it look cleaner, and more organized
v.1.2-added some more links
v.1.1-added some links
v.1.0-enjoy my guide

tenfootflames

Somebody had to do it.. thanks alot. Maybe this should be a sticky?

Joe_B_Me

If this does become a sticky, it will be my 1st :D, and it will help remove some of the threads that say "I need ram, for super duper overclocking". At least, maybe it will cut the number down by half or so.

skeeder

that would require people searching and they don't

mesasone

I think it's a good start, and should probably be stickied - but I think you should greatly revise it, try to make it a bit more in depth. You could give a clear explanation on what the CAS timings mean, and explain what a tight timing does/how it effects system performance/overclocking.

I'd also probably remove the price list as it will quickly be out of date(and who wants to constantly revise that?), and instead perhaps class the ram (based on general opinion) as "value" (gets the job done), "performance" (gets the job done well) and "enthuiest" (what an overclocker should be looking for) - and then make your recommendations. You could also add a small list of brands with bad reputations to be avoided.

Just a couple of suggestions.

Joe_B_Me

Thanks for the feedback, after school today I'll start working on that.

EDIT: I've added the changes, what does everyone think?

Sleeper Cell

This is an inciteful guide, i need new ram, just look at it
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Joe_B_Me

Wow, thats a bottleneck. Save up some money and buy yourself one of the 512x2 kits below. Your CPU is being held way back :(

If you dont have a good budget, go for a 256x2 of G-Skill PC4400 2.5-3-3-7. I think its like $130-$140 @ newegg.

Joe_B_Me

I'm bumping this thread up, its very useful, and should be seen by all.

Stumblebum

man your soo wrong about the A-DATA their "Vitesta" modules are insane they are in the same class as Corsair XMS and OCZ platinum.

i got in my brothers rig 2x 512mb pc4000 A-DATA "vitesta" ram and its the best ram i have ever had...

Joe_B_Me

i've never know of a-datas pc4000, nor have i tested them

iv'e only have played with thier value ram pc3200

gimme some links, and stuff, and your results with them, if i feel they are up to spec, i could add them to this list, maybe.

Stumblebum

they are awesome... ill find a review of them

Joe_B_Me

its been a week and im still waiting :D

BTW: theres an update @ the topish region of my 1st post. click the links for a visual presentation of ram relates stuff.

Onycho

Add this RAM. It's OCZ Value PC3200.

Now while this is value RAM, it's made with the same board, chips and process as OCZ VX. The difference is it's tested for Value specs, not VX...so it's kinda luck of the draw...but they have the possibility to run at OXC VX PC3200 or even OCZ VX PC4000!!.

The information is here. It was posted by an OCZ employee.

thedentist81

Can someone tell what exactly does the latency readings mean? I see the numbers but I have no idea what it means.

Stumblebum

http://www.xtremeresources.com/modul...owcontent&id=8
there is the review

Joe_B_Me

it might overclock, but it's no where as close timings wise compared to the rest of the ram I've tested.

Sorry, i won't put this ram in the good overclocking section.

@ thedentist, the lactency settings deterimine how fast the ram can cycle (process). the tighter the timings, the faster it can go through data
tighter timings=more performance.

fatcat